What is Wrong With Battle for Azeroth’s Dungeons?



Comment by dokeefe1986

on 2019-04-25T21:13:34-05:00

all true and good points. he didn’t even mention the bugs or mechanic exploitation like snapping or elevation changing etc.

Comment by Moonstaker

on 2019-04-25T21:14:28-05:00

My biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn’t too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.r
r
Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.r
But most of the time you’re battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring. r
r
Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.

Comment by sikhjatt23

on 2019-04-25T21:17:41-05:00

Well summed up. I agree especially with explosive and how much hp they have

Comment by Xalea

on 2019-04-25T21:22:03-05:00

The dungeons in BfA are really not interesting. I’m not much of a M+ or raid person anymore, but I did a lot in Legion because they were fun and because they were required for the Class Hall quests, etc. There’s just no reason to do BfA stuff beyond the War Campaign, which is just one or two here and there. They are boring, no rewards, with too much trash that makes it take even longer and be that much more boring. I would go insane if all I did in WoW was dungeons, right now.

Comment by Enzo89

on 2019-04-25T21:22:36-05:00

really well put, legion was on spot with story telling and its dungeons. They were tricky maybe, but not boring and dragging us on as long as the BFA dungeons do. Even the graphics of them were better overall.

Comment by ZerOrbit

on 2019-04-25T21:24:10-05:00

My biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn’t too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.r
r
Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.r
But most of the time you’re battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring. r
r
Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.r
r
It’s like you read my mind. Anyone who has truly experienced WoW knows what the game needs. It feels like the devs are making content without truly knowing whether it’s good or not. Or some thing. I dont know. It feels so off how feedback is responded to and what kind of feedback they listen to.

Comment by PlagueFish

on 2019-04-25T21:28:08-05:00

Through experience I can safely say melee are simply better than ranged classes in M+. Poor casters like mages have to either wait for their cast to finish, or interrupt their own cast in order to interrupt the trash casts with 24sec cd xD.

Comment by Deatheyes

on 2019-04-25T21:28:16-05:00

My problem with BFA dungeons is 100% the trash. You can make engaging trash without it being as difficult as a boss. I love all the BFA dungeon bosses (maybe minus a few) but I despise pretty much all of the trash. Just feels like a slog

Comment by ReallyAbigar

on 2019-04-25T21:38:19-05:00

My biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn’t too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.

Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.
But most of the time you’re battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring.

Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.

+1 to this. I recognise the technical competence of the dungeon artists, but almost every dungeon in BfA is drab and boring to be in. The trash is tedious – not genuinely difficult, just tedious. Blizz devs too often resort to making things more tedious instead of making them truly hard. The boring aesthetics with the tedious trash and forgettable bosses makes me feel like my time is better spent elsewhere – sometimes in game but often by logging off entirely these days. Nobody I know who used to chain run keys in Legion does that anymore, it’s one and done for the week.

Also my afflock felt useful as heck in Legion; she feels like a burden in BfA. Having your only interrupt tied to using the same pet every time no matter what sucks in dungeons where interrupts are important. Class design and wonky class balance doesn’t help.

Comment by Artek88

on 2019-04-25T21:51:37-05:00

The dungeons in BfA are really not interesting. I’m not much of a M+ or raid person anymore, but I did a lot in Legion because they were fun and because they were required for the Class Hall quests, etc. There’s just no reason to do BfA stuff beyond the War Campaign, which is just one or two here and there. I would go insane if I spammed BfA dungeons all the time.r
r
+r
r
My biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn’t too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.r
r
Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.r
But most of the time you’re battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring. r
r
Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.r
r
Completely true. When i play Legion i have fun running most of the dungeons if not all, on BfA those dungeons are simply just too boring to spam them one by one by one and another after. Waycrest Manor is almost similar to Black Rook Hold maybe that’s why u have that feeling :Pr
r
all true and good points. he didn’t even mention the bugs or mechanic exploitation like snapping or elevation changing etc.r
r
Another thing is as most of the dungeons still have bugs like broken pathfinding for trash (hunter pets as well), some boss resetting just suddenly without doing anything to that reset to appear or pulling trash impossibly from other floors or insanely distances.r
r
As the post creator says in the conclusion: “Additionally, I would just delete Tyrannical and Fortified as these two affixes interact so poorly with dungeons that already scale on an exponential curve via the dungeon level.”r
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Imo those 2 affixes are pointless coz fight some trash/bosses 2-3 mechanics per group/boss is on the long run boring not fun and not needed. The level of the dungeon you running is enough %age tuned up from the difficulty level you are running and is not needed to make them more bored than it looks now.

Comment by warsn

on 2019-04-25T21:55:33-05:00

One of my biggest complaints with BFA dungeons is that every one of them feels too constricting. Back in WoD we had Grimrail depot which had narrow corridors and railings/boxes overhead that would just move your camera distance if you changed position and annoy the heck out of you. It just feels cramped on space. Legion we had open expansive dungeons with wide pathways and sanguine felt fine, quaking felt fine. In BFA every dungeon feels like Grimrail Depot and it makes me wish for the return to Eye of Azshara, seagulls or not.

Comment by Dimitriz

on 2019-04-25T21:57:48-05:00

My biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn’t too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.r
r
Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.r
But most of the time you’re battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring. r
r
Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.r
r
I understand you. Addition to this is that some dungeon like Court of Star has some optional choices if you met the requirement like you can posion the boss vial to make him weaker, if your team have a paladin you can use the tank artifact to show which one is the demon faking as the nightborne, those details are minor for someone but for me though it kinda make me feel special :>

Comment by auranim

on 2019-04-25T22:15:54-05:00

I don’t particularly like dungeons and raids, but I’m under the impression that it’s mostly because of a few points you made. Wow’s medieval combat system just makes everything feel sluggish and their new class design makes all classes feel samey and lacking. On top of that they keep adding modern mechanics to an old system. Ground targeted enemy abilities + affixes? On classes that can’t cast while moving? On healers that can’t cast while moving? And the GCD just makes it all worse because it makes it all the more annoying to add a quick movement or shield ability in the middle of your rotation because it feels like you’re wasting ages of damage or healing. Not to mention the whole need to use external resources or websites to know who you’re inviting to your party, and the subsequent elitism that it reinforces.r
r
Oh, and RNG makes all that effort potentially worthless because you’re not investing all that time and stress to get something good, you’re investing on a chance to get something good. It’s just too frustrating.

Comment by Jaigar

on 2019-04-25T22:55:54-05:00

I don’t have any problem with bolstering or bursting themselves. I think its alright to have affixes that can slow down the run abit and make you change how you DPS packs down. My only issue with it is that it triggers off too much. They took a step in the right direction by removing on-death affixes from the blobs/skellies in Shrine. But the Tick packs in Underrot, the maggots in Waycrest, and the other large packs of small mobs, its just annoying. Classes have unavoidable AoE as part of their DPS and there’s nothing they can do about it.

Bursting+Quaking is just so bad I don’t understand why its in the pool. Why is 50% of the damage taken in a dungeon from these 2 affixes combined?

Kicks matter so much more in certain dungeons over others. For example, in AD, if you don’t kick the venom blasts, you just get wrecked. I healed a 14 waycrest at 386 on my resto shaman no problem with friends. I tried pugging a 12 AD at 405 on the resto shaman (during greivous week) and I couldn’t keep up because there was just no kicks. 1 missed kick was costing me 3 globals to catch up on healing.

I don’t think the Underrot run back is that long. The shortcut after the first boss cuts off quite a bit, and since you’re mounted, its maybe 45 seconds to get back to the end boss. Shrine runback is even longer, and the MDI routes dont unlock the shortcuts because they simply can’t.

Shrine trash placement is by far the worst in any dungeon. There’s too many pats and bad mob worth. With Sanguine its an absolute nightmare as people often run and pull additional mobs which means over %. Its such a bad experience.

Comment by Peredhil

on 2019-04-25T23:20:42-05:00

My biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn’t too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.

This applies to many topics comparing Legion vs BfA, unfortunately. Yet, as players we pay the same for an expansion that is good and one that went live untested ,rushed for whatever reason and that required band aid after band aid. The whole A grade team/B grade team cycle won’t last long from a customer perspective.

My problem with BFA dungeons is 100% the trash. You can make engaging trash without it being as difficult as a boss. I love all the BFA dungeon bosses (maybe minus a few) but I despise pretty much all of the trash. Just feels like a slog

And yet Blizzard feels that you don’t kill enough trash on most dungeons, according to this…

Comment by maxchum

on 2019-04-25T23:22:18-05:00

In legion i was pushing up to +23, now my highest is 14. I’m simply don’t want to go too high this xpack due to issues stated above by the author.
Now we just do 3-5 keys a week, mostly gearing up couple toons and that’s it, instead of trying and trying, like in Legion.
Don’t get me wrong, Legion had problems too but somehow keys managed to stay hard but good kind of hard, not over punishing like half of the current dungeons.
Honestly, 90% of enjoyment comes from playing WoW with good people, and only 10% comes from doing actual keys.

Comment by Jaigar

on 2019-04-25T23:33:20-05:00

I would also like to add that class design carries over into every part of the game. Its like having a rock in your shoe you can’t get out. It drags down whatever you try to do.r
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Legion did have some affix silliness such as sanguine in BRH, but healers and tanks were more powerful and they just didn’t carry as much weight.

Comment by Twostar

on 2019-04-25T23:36:30-05:00

I would just be repeating what everybody else has said, tedious trash, too many forgettable dungeons etc. I haven’t done a keystone in over 2 months at this point. The community is partly to blame too because raider.io score and the MDI has made the dungeoneering scene insufferable (I did high keys in Legion so the bad player excuse won’t wash), but I also acknowledge that nothing can be done about that. The MDI wannabe mentality has trickled down to the point where I’ve had someone want to deathskip in a random heroic.

Comment by Leftkeywest

on 2019-04-25T23:46:45-05:00

My biggest complaint with Bfa dungeons has to be that they just feel so boring to play and look at. I absolutely loved the Legion dungeons as they were beautiful, trash wasn’t too punishing most of the time, and more importantly: The fantasy was there.r
r
Almost all of the Legion dungeons were High Fantasy, and it lead to both boss and trash fights that were interesting because of what you were fighting: Waging war upon the Ship of the Damned, Passing the Trials of the Halls of Valour, Clearing out the old Prisoners of the Vault of the Wardens, Crashing a party to try to assassinate an Empress.r
But most of the time you’re battling humans or trolls now. Some parts of dungeons and bosses are kind of cool, but they get brought down by the fact that the rest of the dungeon is boring. r
r
Waycrest Manor is one of my favourite dungeons this expansion, because it still has a feel of being a Legion dungeon.r
r
To bring back the fantasy feeling, it looks like Nazjatar will spring that up a bit. The only thing we need is a dungeon based around Azshara herself, within Nazjatar, with the magic contained within the dungeon itself. A poor opportunity and we got Kara 2.0 with gnomes.

Comment by gmfitzgerald

on 2019-04-26T01:01:57-05:00

I would also like to add that class design carries over into every part of the game. Its like having a rock in your shoe you can’t get out. It drags down whatever you try to do.r
r
This is a huge part of it. The main classes I play are Windwalker and Havoc Demon Hunter, which feel pretty similar and have similar issues. Explosive isn’t a bad concept, except you have classes that pour all their damage (and their Azerite traits) into a single channeled cast that has to be interrupted to hit Explosive. And Bursting/Bolstering aren’t a bad concept, except the design of the last couple expansions is for everybody’s damage to rely on huge AoE abilities. Relying on Shroud isn’t bad, until you give it to only one class. And frequent interrupts would be totally okay if all DPS could interrupt frequently.



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